| Date |
Time |
From |
To |
Message |
| 2009-04-29 |
04:17:00 AM |
marcf |
|
morning guys |
| 2009-04-29 |
04:45:44 AM |
ncherry |
|
Morning MarcF! |
| 2009-04-29 |
05:16:11 AM |
juha200 |
|
.. |
| 2009-04-29 |
05:42:19 AM |
marcf |
|
recieved the GC100 box... |
| 2009-04-29 |
05:55:11 AM |
juha200 |
|
cool ! |
| 2009-04-29 |
06:36:23 AM |
ncherry |
|
Off to work I go, I'll be a bit quiet today as I have no access from the office and I'll be out on my bike after work. Man I've gotta post in the forums!  |
| 2009-04-29 |
06:37:39 AM |
marcf |
|
have a good day, bummer about the line to the net |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:45:58 AM |
guest596 |
|
Hi |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:46:30 AM |
guest596 |
|
Anybody herre ? |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:46:35 AM |
guest596 |
|
here |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:47:04 AM |
*juha* |
|
yes |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:47:07 AM |
*juha* |
|
how are you? |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:47:39 AM |
guest596 |
|
fine ....Just found this page ...and seem intersteing |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:47:56 AM |
*juha* |
|
yes, very interesting indeed |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:47:56 AM |
jean-luc |
|
enter the room |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:48:06 AM |
guest596 |
|
juha? ...finland ? |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:48:10 AM |
*juha* |
|
yep |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:48:13 AM |
*juha* |
|
you? |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:48:17 AM |
guest596 |
|
france |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:48:33 AM |
*juha* |
|
bonjour |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:48:42 AM |
guest596 |
|
Excellent ! |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:49:09 AM |
guest596 |
|
I was looking for a way to modify my NAS to support my CM11 (x10 interface) |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:49:28 AM |
*juha* |
|
CM11 coming soon |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:49:39 AM |
guest596 |
|
...and now i m looking for the best price for an Alix 3D3 |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:49:58 AM |
*juha* |
|
alix you should be able to build below 200 euro |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:50:22 AM |
guest596 |
|
mainboard can be found around 110... |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:50:46 AM |
*juha* |
|
yeah, just need the wifi (unless you dont want it?) and couple of antennas |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:51:01 AM |
*juha* |
|
i guess you could go without wifi too to keep price low |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:51:13 AM |
guest596 |
|
...at least at the begining |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:51:35 AM |
*juha* |
|
CF card, depending how much space you need |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:51:46 AM |
*juha* |
|
2gb and 4gb are maybe 10 to 15 euro |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:52:10 AM |
guest596 |
|
I already have some cards ...that i don't use, so ... |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:52:39 AM |
*juha* |
|
there you go then... find a suitable tin can and you don't even need to pay for the enclosure  |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:52:39 AM |
jean-luc |
|
2gb at $10 here in the US |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:53:31 AM |
guest596 |
|
yes ...low price...so much fun |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:57:10 AM |
guest596 |
|
I just read the comment about building iphone apps on *usual* linux ...it can be done...but IB is missing |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:57:29 AM |
guest596 |
|
IB=Interface Builder |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:57:47 AM |
*juha* |
|
ah cool... please share whatever info you have on the forum |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:57:57 AM |
*juha* |
|
I'd be really interested in automating the build on linux |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:58:03 AM |
*juha* |
|
if possible |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:58:33 AM |
*juha* |
|
even if developers still need to use xcode for IB |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:58:51 AM |
guest596 |
|
I ve done a virtual machine (for VMWare) ...let me see if i can find it .... |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:00:04 AM |
*juha* |
|
brb |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:24:01 AM |
*juha* |
guest596 |
if you go full screen you can set your username for the chat |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:25:19 AM |
guest596 |
|
I just register as bflash2k |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:29:33 AM |
bflash2k |
|
Back in fullscreen mode |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:38:04 AM |
*juha* |
|
cool |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:38:12 AM |
*juha* |
|
sorry had to eat in the meanwhile |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:50:16 AM |
bflash2k |
|
I understand are u located in finland or in switerzland ? |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:50:30 AM |
*juha* |
|
switzerland, mostly |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:50:36 AM |
*juha* |
|
also taiwan and sometimes finland |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:50:59 AM |
bflash2k |
|
not so easy |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:51:13 AM |
*juha* |
|
well.. I like the change of scenery |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:51:22 AM |
*juha* |
|
it's a small village in switzerland, it gets boring quickly |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:51:43 AM |
bflash2k |
|
where exactly ? near austria ? |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:51:55 AM |
marcf |
|
hi bflash |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:52:04 AM |
bflash2k |
|
Hi MarcF |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:52:08 AM |
marcf |
|
explain this thing about the VMware image |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:52:11 AM |
*juha* |
|
no, neuchatel, next to the jura mounrains |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:52:20 AM |
*juha* |
|
mountains even |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:52:29 AM |
marcf |
|
there has been some talk about making an OR reference image for development |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:53:47 AM |
guest7251 |
|
quit the room |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:54:30 AM |
bflash2k |
|
I didnt investigate yet what exactly is needed for OR dev .... Do you want to provide a complete VMware image for deve ? |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:54:48 AM |
marcf |
|
I think that is the idea that has been floating around |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:54:51 AM |
guest596 |
|
quit the room |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:55:05 AM |
marcf |
|
I am not sure what it would bring us |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:55:12 AM |
marcf |
|
but count me ignorant |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:55:54 AM |
*juha* |
|
at this point what would be interesting is getting the cocoa builds running on linux |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:56:05 AM |
*juha* |
|
doesn't need to be vmware image |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:56:14 AM |
*juha* |
|
but that's an option though |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:58:44 AM |
bflash2k |
|
I m not very aware of Apple dev (more on M$Oft) ...but the idea was just to be able to compile and link the sample provided with the iphone SDK... |
| 2009-04-29 |
10:00:16 AM |
*juha* |
|
i am thinking automated builds and test runs that can cover all aspects of the software -- right now living in Apple hardware lock-in is annoying |
| 2009-04-29 |
10:00:25 AM |
*juha* |
|
and it will probably get worse |
| 2009-04-29 |
10:05:06 AM |
bflash2k |
|
solutions like h*ttp://www.saurik.com/id/4 or h*ttp://iphonesdkdev.blogspot.com/2008/10/how-to-install-llvm-gcc-for-iphone-sdk.html ? |
| 2009-04-29 |
10:05:39 AM |
*juha* |
|
thanks, I'll have a peek |
| 2009-04-29 |
10:08:56 AM |
bflash2k |
|
i ll see if a complete Leopard can work on VMw .... but just for testing purpose ! |
| 2009-04-29 |
10:12:13 AM |
*juha* |
|
it's also an interesting view into how ignorant apple is on open source |
| 2009-04-29 |
10:13:01 AM |
*juha* |
|
"they seem to believe they can provide source on their own schedule, rather than with the corresponding binaries, which is required by the license" |
| 2009-04-29 |
10:13:42 AM |
marcf |
|
Apple is "pro" open source on its own terms. |
| 2009-04-29 |
10:16:00 AM |
bflash2k |
|
|
| 2009-04-29 |
10:16:30 AM |
*juha* |
|
In the other news, Android 1.5 was released |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:44:06 PM |
ncherry |
|
MarcF, you gto that right but then again so is Mircosoft (the BSD TCP stack) |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:49:59 PM |
jean-luc |
|
just added some .02 to the vision discussion |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:50:14 PM |
ncherry |
|
MarcF. I think the talk about the OR reference image was me. It was for the Alix. We'll sprobably till need something like that but there is no immediate rush. It's more a way to control the quality of the tools used with OR. |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:50:35 PM |
ncherry |
|
Hi Jean-Luc, how was the weekend? |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:51:31 PM |
jean-luc |
|
nice and warm |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:52:06 PM |
ncherry |
|
I enjoy the heat right up until last night when it cooled off.Today was 'cold' |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:53:19 PM |
jean-luc |
|
yeah chilly |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:53:27 PM |
jean-luc |
|
better for working though |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:53:39 PM |
ncherry |
|
YEs, true. |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:54:05 PM |
ncherry |
|
So Jean-Luc - you had to throw a wrench into the works |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:54:27 PM |
ncherry |
|
I thought I'd get out of dealing with the GUI by workign with the scripting |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:54:58 PM |
ncherry |
|
We're going to have to figure that out. At first I'm not going to worry about it but we do need to tie the two together somehow |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:55:14 PM |
ncherry |
|
I'll post that to the forum |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:55:28 PM |
jean-luc |
|
what wrench? |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:55:33 PM |
ncherry |
|
Right now I need a shower, only 27 miles. |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:55:58 PM |
ncherry |
|
The vision monkey wrench |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:56:23 PM |
jean-luc |
|
I'm just expanding a little bit on what part is 'config' and what part is 'inherited' |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:56:45 PM |
jean-luc |
|
this ties in to the lights are lights are lights as well. |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:57:34 PM |
ncherry |
|
But where does the object exist? In the scripting? In JBoss? Elsewhere? |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:57:43 PM |
ncherry |
|
It's a very good point |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:58:01 PM |
jean-luc |
|
actually that doesn't even matter that much at this point in the discussion |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:58:06 PM |
jean-luc |
|
the issue is the model. |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:58:54 PM |
jean-luc |
|
now it is in the controller.xml |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:58:59 PM |
ncherry |
|
Not a problem then. We'll need some kind of updater that watches the config, if it changes then the object gets update |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:59:12 PM |
ncherry |
|
I haven't really thought that through yet |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:59:36 PM |
ncherry |
|
BTW, what's a factory? |
| 2009-04-29 |
07:59:48 PM |
ncherry |
|
I should probably Goggle that |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:00:09 PM |
jean-luc |
|
yeah it's OO speak |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:00:19 PM |
jean-luc |
|
it will give you an object of a class |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:00:54 PM |
jean-luc |
|
in the current model we have 3 'types' of base classes so to say, the main one now IR |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:02:19 PM |
jean-luc |
|
one of the questions from an 'oo' point of view is this: |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:03:03 PM |
jean-luc |
|
is a specific remote implementation a subclass inheriting from IR or is every remote an instance or IR? |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:03:18 PM |
jean-luc |
|
get that? |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:03:30 PM |
ncherry |
|
I thnk so |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:03:50 PM |
jean-luc |
|
currently we implement it (conceptually, this has nothing to do with java really) as an instance I think |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:04:02 PM |
ncherry |
|
You ask tough questions |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:04:23 PM |
jean-luc |
|
the IR class defines one event 'sendircommand()' |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:04:55 PM |
jean-luc |
|
actually we only have on 'object' so to speak the at this point, namely IR. |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:05:07 PM |
ncherry |
|
We kind of want this to flow from what the user would do. The user would create an object or remote. They'd probably create an object of IR |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:05:29 PM |
jean-luc |
|
so the command is ir.sendcommand("TV","POWER_ON") |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:06:09 PM |
jean-luc |
|
actually this will become tv.sendcommand("POWER_ON") where tv inherits from IR |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:06:20 PM |
ncherry |
|
Actually I think it would be more natural to do TV.sendir("POWER_ON") |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:06:32 PM |
ncherry |
|
Bingo, |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:06:42 PM |
jean-luc |
|
agree that's what it will be soon |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:07:02 PM |
ncherry |
|
Actually TV could inherit DVR and Stereo also (things get a bit complex here) |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:07:04 PM |
jean-luc |
|
because in the modeller you will see 3 'objects' for the 3 remotes that you have used to model |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:07:12 PM |
jean-luc |
|
leave that out for now! |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:07:16 PM |
ncherry |
|
okay |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:07:30 PM |
jean-luc |
|
so every lirc file used is one object. |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:07:45 PM |
jean-luc |
|
obviously, but the question is this: |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:08:05 PM |
jean-luc |
|
is TV and instance of IR |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:08:10 PM |
ncherry |
|
obvious to you but I'm a Java novice |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:08:27 PM |
jean-luc |
|
again this is NOT about JAVa at all really. |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:08:38 PM |
jean-luc |
|
this is about modelling (and then of course implementing) |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:09:08 PM |
jean-luc |
|
the question that was asked is about this... |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:09:12 PM |
ncherry |
|
Does TV have and IR? Does IR have a TV? I think TV has an IR |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:09:29 PM |
jean-luc |
|
not HAS but IS |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:09:47 PM |
jean-luc |
|
and don't jump on that! |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:10:13 PM |
jean-luc |
|
suppose we support IR and GCIP to talk to devices like TV's |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:10:28 PM |
ncherry |
|
okay |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:10:37 PM |
jean-luc |
|
the GCIP implementation will have a diffferent command set most likely |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:10:52 PM |
jean-luc |
|
like the example of the power BUTTON on the remote |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:10:58 PM |
ncherry |
|
Why? sendIR still works? |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:11:04 PM |
jean-luc |
|
wait! |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:11:08 PM |
ncherry |
|
okay |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:11:25 PM |
jean-luc |
|
in GCIP there is most likely a POWER_ON command and a POWER_OFF command |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:11:34 PM |
guest6238 |
|
enter the room |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:11:42 PM |
guest6238 |
|
quit the room |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:12:02 PM |
jean-luc |
|
plus for example the GCIP will have say some talk back method like 'IsTVOn()" |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:12:15 PM |
ncherry |
|
true |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:12:35 PM |
jean-luc |
|
now this means that the SAME physical TV from my modelling point of view is very different depending on what way I use to control it |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:12:58 PM |
ncherry |
|
this is where I get a bit confused |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:13:09 PM |
jean-luc |
|
so if I design a nice page on my iphone for this TV to control the TV with GCIP I will make an ON button |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:13:14 PM |
jean-luc |
|
and on OFF button |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:13:16 PM |
jean-luc |
|
right? |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:13:21 PM |
ncherry |
|
yes |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:13:55 PM |
jean-luc |
|
Then for whatever reason the TV will move to a different location (say the kids room) where for some reason there is commandir and not GCIP available |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:14:12 PM |
jean-luc |
|
the question on the web was not what does that mean for my TV |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:14:26 PM |
ncherry |
|
okay |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:14:41 PM |
jean-luc |
|
obviously the ON and OFF button would have to be replace with a simple "POWER" button that will send the POWER ir command |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:14:49 PM |
jean-luc |
|
the ON/OFF command is not even support here |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:15:22 PM |
jean-luc |
|
this is all stuff about how things will end up in the XML files really more even than java classes |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:15:30 PM |
jean-luc |
|
and it's pretty fundamental |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:15:37 PM |
ncherry |
|
??? - The iWhatever remote has the actual IR commands? |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:16:38 PM |
ncherry |
|
or deos it have something more generic (POWER_ON, POWER_OFF or POWER xml)) |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:17:48 PM |
jean-luc |
|
that is not practical, just take a look in the current beehive |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:18:15 PM |
jean-luc |
|
or actually it is generic now, that was one of my points SEND_IR(command) |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:18:15 PM |
ncherry |
|
I'm still waiting on my iTouch, hasn't arrived yet (grrr!) |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:19:03 PM |
ncherry |
|
Okay, so still confused but at a different point |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:19:12 PM |
jean-luc |
|
|
| 2009-04-29 |
08:19:42 PM |
jean-luc |
|
the implications of these choices are huge because you carry them with you for years |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:19:52 PM |
jean-luc |
|
for your |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:19:57 PM |
ncherry |
|
The IR commands that need to be sent are still the same as the TV is still the same but in a different place and the device sending it is different (hmm, that may be important) |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:20:28 PM |
jean-luc |
|
when it's IR yes, but when I adress the SAME tv over RS232 or IP (3 ways!) |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:20:31 PM |
jean-luc |
|
it's not the same |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:20:32 PM |
ncherry |
|
No arguement on the implications! |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:20:42 PM |
ncherry |
|
OH! |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:21:13 PM |
ncherry |
|
IP != IR != RS232 |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:21:33 PM |
ncherry |
|
That's very important! |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:22:57 PM |
ncherry |
|
Hmm, I could say that the updater is responsible for the changes but I don't have enough experience to know how difficult that is |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:23:37 PM |
ncherry |
|
The outside still looks the same except it's location, of course these are not simple changes being made |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:27:24 PM |
ncherry |
|
Hmm, I think I see the problem if the Remote has the commands for an IR setup there is not way to translate that to an IP set of commands that goes directly to the TV (it's not IR commands an more) |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:27:49 PM |
ncherry |
|
I'm going to shower now and think, thanks |
| 2009-04-29 |
08:40:29 PM |
jean-luc |
|
exactly! from a modeller point of view they are two different categories even though the TV is still the same of course. |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:11:04 PM |
ncherry |
|
Man I need to think about this and I need a shared whiteboard to make this easier to deal with. This example of the TV being controlled by IR then the TV being controlled by something else makes this a tough solution. |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:13:12 PM |
ncherry |
|
It may require that the scripting need to be redone unless we can abstract the sendIR to sendCmd() making it more generic. That doesn't answer all the questions but it's got me thinking not just about that but how we actually add a new TV, is control path (such as the GC) and how it gets added to the Remote. |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:13:45 PM |
ncherry |
|
Jean-Luc you keep asking questions and pointing out such things, thanks |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:29:05 PM |
jean-luc |
|
you know it's not hard if you don't try to solve everything! |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:29:19 PM |
jean-luc |
|
this comes up because of a specific request / thought |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:29:35 PM |
jean-luc |
|
it's like your suggestion of a general 'power_on' command |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:30:38 PM |
jean-luc |
|
the idea is great if a) everything would support it and b) if you had no beehive or other database already there with 1000s of different names and commands. No one is ever going to remap that. All not a big deal really. |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:31:41 PM |
jean-luc |
|
Just good thinking about how to map things and what layering makes certain things possible or not and some things easy and some things not. But we're also stuck with a lot of legacy and limitations that are simply there. |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:31:57 PM |
jean-luc |
|
and then you have the 'beautiful' solution and the pragmatic one |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:32:08 PM |
jean-luc |
|
and then there is existing data and stuff... |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:32:22 PM |
jean-luc |
|
nice job for juha to figure out what path to take .... |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:32:46 PM |
ncherry |
|
|
| 2009-04-29 |
09:33:31 PM |
ncherry |
|
I wasn't planning on solving everything but I like to think things through, you should see my network diagrams |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:34:00 PM |
ncherry |
|
Escpially when the customer want backups to backups to backups. |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:34:35 PM |
ncherry |
|
I usually try to shoot for the simpliest solution, if it's too complex it can't be debug |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:35:39 PM |
ncherry |
|
I'm going to sit down and do a high-level add this then that then this, build a menu and see where that goes. I can't understand it if I can't do it |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:39:06 PM |
ncherry |
|
Does anyone know of a good whiteboard software? One that plays nice with Windows, Linux and Mac? We could Skype and use the Whiteboard to do design. Inn networking a whiteboard is a most important tool |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:39:42 PM |
jean-luc |
|
I've been using dimdim today |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:39:46 PM |
jean-luc |
|
that was pretty good |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:39:48 PM |
jean-luc |
|
and free |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:40:12 PM |
jean-luc |
|
comes with whiteboard, pdf share and desktop sharing |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:40:35 PM |
ncherry |
|
That sounds cool. |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:41:54 PM |
ncherry |
|
Good for up to 20, nice. Can it handle voice? |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:42:41 PM |
jean-luc |
|
yes and video |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:43:19 PM |
ncherry |
|
I don't want anyone looking at me while I'm writing (my lips move |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:45:26 PM |
ncherry |
|
I've got to run, gotta be in the lab early again tomorrow I'll be back tomorrow. night to continue this. |
| 2009-04-29 |
09:45:41 PM |
jean-luc |
|
ciao |
| 2009-04-29 |
10:31:14 PM |
guest1818 |
|
Interesting |
| 2009-04-29 |
10:33:35 PM |
jean-luc |
|
hi |
| 2009-04-29 |
10:33:59 PM |
jean-luc |
|
which part is interesting to you? |
