Date Time From To Message 2009-08-01 09:00:11 AM kdavis   what's new marcf? 2009-08-01 09:00:34 AM marcf   not much 2009-08-01 09:00:45 AM marcf   preparing to come back to EU 2009-08-01 09:00:48 AM kdavis   still in Alabama? 2009-08-01 09:00:52 AM marcf   he he 2009-08-01 09:00:54 AM marcf   no in ATL 2009-08-01 09:00:58 AM kdavis   ok 2009-08-01 09:01:04 AM marcf   seeing markS is always a blast 2009-08-01 09:01:16 AM kdavis   does Mark S work with you? 2009-08-01 09:01:19 AM kdavis   I know he runs Digium 2009-08-01 09:01:37 AM marcf   I helped mark with his round of investmen t in digium 2009-08-01 09:01:48 AM marcf   his investor was my investor 2009-08-01 09:01:56 AM marcf   he likes to party 2009-08-01 09:02:04 AM kdavis   ah, ok 2009-08-01 09:02:11 AM marcf   and yes he did help with the Alix board design 2009-08-01 09:02:18 AM marcf   that was his 2009-08-01 09:02:23 AM kdavis   cool 2009-08-01 09:02:33 AM marcf   and now he is looking at android based panels 2009-08-01 09:02:44 AM kdavis   which seems to be the fad nowadays 2009-08-01 09:02:45 AM marcf   I think we should support them soon 2009-08-01 09:02:54 AM kdavis   would be a smart move 2009-08-01 09:03:00 AM marcf   you think it is just a fad? 2009-08-01 09:03:08 AM kdavis   well, fad is the wrong word. 2009-08-01 09:03:35 AM kdavis   because it'll be around for a long time. 2009-08-01 09:03:47 AM kdavis   I just don't know what google's plans are for it 2009-08-01 09:03:50 AM marcf   he likes android btw 2009-08-01 09:03:57 AM marcf   he even started writting java 2009-08-01 09:03:59 AM kdavis   they seem to be jumping into everything now. 2009-08-01 09:04:02 AM marcf   he is mostly a c guy 2009-08-01 09:04:15 AM marcf   true, you wonder some times if they are serious on all their projects 2009-08-01 09:04:27 AM kdavis   that's exactly what I mean. 2009-08-01 09:04:53 AM kdavis   I've lived in Huntsville btw 2009-08-01 09:04:59 AM kdavis   well, I was down their for a client 2009-08-01 09:05:07 AM kdavis   for about 9 months 2009-08-01 09:05:14 AM kdavis   traveling back and forth from Huntsville to NYC 2009-08-01 09:05:21 AM marcf   he 2009-08-01 09:05:35 AM kdavis   did you visit HAI? 2009-08-01 09:05:41 AM marcf   no are they there? 2009-08-01 09:05:44 AM marcf   I didn't know 2009-08-01 09:05:54 AM kdavis   hmm 2009-08-01 09:05:58 AM marcf   i did visit crestron HQ southeast 2009-08-01 09:06:01 AM kdavis   oh 2009-08-01 09:06:02 AM kdavis   nevermind 2009-08-01 09:06:06 AM marcf   (I thought they were in new orleans) 2009-08-01 09:06:07 AM kdavis   I met an HAI guy there 2009-08-01 09:06:09 AM kdavis   HAI is in NO 2009-08-01 09:06:31 AM kdavis   what are your thoughts on Crestron? 2009-08-01 09:06:38 AM kdavis   I've used most of their products 2009-08-01 09:06:46 AM marcf   I am ditching crestron 2009-08-01 09:06:55 AM marcf   We want to build and OSS crestron 2009-08-01 09:07:13 AM marcf   I am not spending the money to get lights/shades/ac integrated by crestron 2009-08-01 09:07:26 AM kdavis   which is what LinuxMCE is trying to do 2009-08-01 09:07:27 AM marcf   but in EU I can take a KNX base and mix and match panels and switches 2009-08-01 09:07:33 AM kdavis   be the OSS equivalent of Crestron and AMX 2009-08-01 09:07:54 AM kdavis   we already have a bunch of more features than Crestron and AMX 2009-08-01 09:07:56 AM marcf   so the competition on panels is fierce 2009-08-01 09:08:15 AM marcf   I am not interested in AV that much 2009-08-01 09:08:22 AM marcf   we don't watch TV at home 2009-08-01 09:08:32 AM kdavis   right 2009-08-01 09:08:41 AM marcf   and i like head banging techno while my wife listens to country music 2009-08-01 09:08:41 AM kdavis   and honestly, AV is not really the focus of LinuxMCE as well 2009-08-01 09:08:47 AM kdavis   although we're know has a media center 2009-08-01 09:08:53 AM marcf   right 2009-08-01 09:09:13 AM marcf   but if I want to do lights and shades and AC, i CANNOT find a decent panel from vendors in the US 2009-08-01 09:09:22 AM marcf   I mean switch, not touch 2009-08-01 09:09:30 AM marcf   touch layer is going to be OR 2009-08-01 09:09:40 AM kdavis   right 2009-08-01 09:09:43 AM marcf   but I need a redundant switch layer 2009-08-01 09:09:58 AM marcf   Lutron has cool stuff but no AC integration 2009-08-01 09:10:12 AM kdavis   their are a few out there 2009-08-01 09:10:16 AM kdavis   my friends have some stuff 2009-08-01 09:10:21 AM kdavis   I forget the manufacturer though 2009-08-01 09:10:25 AM kdavis   works pretty well 2009-08-01 09:10:27 AM marcf   I am interested 2009-08-01 09:10:33 AM marcf   I need it for my house 2009-08-01 09:10:45 AM kdavis   send me an e-mail with what you're looking to do 2009-08-01 09:10:49 AM kdavis   I'll ask around 2009-08-01 09:10:53 AM kdavis   dlewis@linuxmce.org 2009-08-01 09:11:03 AM kdavis   I know the guys that run cocoontech.com 2009-08-01 09:11:09 AM kdavis   which is a DIY HA site 2009-08-01 09:11:20 AM kdavis   full of hundreds of commercial installers 2009-08-01 09:11:31 AM kdavis   that do the gamut 2009-08-01 09:11:43 AM kdavis   Crestron/AMX to HAI and Elk to Misterhouse, etc... 2009-08-01 09:11:49 AM marcf   I know it 2009-08-01 09:12:28 AM kdavis   ah, ok 2009-08-01 09:12:47 AM kdavis   yea, I get most of my info. from those guys 2009-08-01 09:13:11 AM kdavis   very knowledgeable 2009-08-01 09:13:45 AM kdavis   so, what's the next big step for OR? 2009-08-01 09:13:56 AM marcf   1.0 release is out 2009-08-01 09:14:07 AM marcf   we are working on a few partnerships behind the scenes 2009-08-01 09:14:36 AM marcf   we need runtime distribution through installers 2009-08-01 09:14:58 AM marcf   There are enough scenarios that can be addressed to warrant marketing 2009-08-01 09:15:06 AM marcf   (remote unification, integration) 2009-08-01 09:15:31 AM kdavis   right 2009-08-01 09:16:05 AM marcf   the tech of the field is not deep 2009-08-01 09:16:16 AM marcf   (I mean compared to modern IT middleware ) 2009-08-01 09:16:23 AM marcf   but the business is devilish 2009-08-01 09:16:32 AM marcf   very complicated 2009-08-01 09:16:33 AM kdavis   it is 2009-08-01 09:16:35 AM marcf   very expensive 2009-08-01 09:16:36 AM kdavis   i agree 2009-08-01 09:16:39 AM kdavis   to your email 2009-08-01 09:16:42 AM kdavis   when you say wall panel 2009-08-01 09:16:46 AM marcf   switch 2009-08-01 09:16:47 AM kdavis   you mean a switch, correct? 2009-08-01 09:16:48 AM marcf   not touch 2009-08-01 09:16:49 AM kdavis   right 2009-08-01 09:16:49 AM marcf   yes 2009-08-01 09:17:07 AM kdavis   I'll ask around 2009-08-01 09:17:08 AM marcf   In KNX you can mix and match 2009-08-01 09:17:14 AM marcf   because the bus format is standardized 2009-08-01 09:17:56 AM marcf   so you can have this http://www.gira.com/en/ 2009-08-01 09:18:11 AM marcf   and many other vendors competing on panel look 2009-08-01 09:18:29 AM marcf   I was thinking to bring KNX gear from EU (more expensive than Crestron ) 2009-08-01 09:18:46 AM marcf   and put an OR box listening on the sensors and relaying to the back end 2009-08-01 09:19:00 AM marcf   defeats teh redundancy layer which is not good 2009-08-01 09:19:01 AM kdavis   interesting stuff 2009-08-01 09:19:14 AM marcf   Did you run across xPL ? 2009-08-01 09:19:28 AM marcf   UDP IP stuff in Java? 2009-08-01 09:19:48 AM kdavis   xmp pipeline? 2009-08-01 09:19:52 AM kdavis   xml* 2009-08-01 09:20:16 AM kdavis   na, haven't seen the UDP IP stuff 2009-08-01 09:20:54 AM marcf   Same idea trying to standardize a bus 2009-08-01 09:20:59 AM marcf   that is a uphill battle 2009-08-01 09:21:14 AM marcf   I think we are better off taking "existing" and offering cool touch panel tech on top 2009-08-01 09:21:23 AM marcf   so the meeting with Crestron was interesting btw 2009-08-01 09:21:27 AM kdavis   I mean, you can always adapt 2009-08-01 09:21:34 AM kdavis   what happened? 2009-08-01 09:21:45 AM marcf   So I explain what I am trying to do 2009-08-01 09:21:53 AM marcf   with my home and with OR 2009-08-01 09:22:05 AM marcf   I tell them I am going to Lutron 2009-08-01 09:22:16 AM marcf   they push hard for their lights gear 2009-08-01 09:22:23 AM kdavis   of course 2009-08-01 09:22:37 AM marcf   they claim they don't care about panels sales that the gear is just as lucrative for them 2009-08-01 09:22:42 AM kdavis   many people don't know that Creston is not easily integrated with other products 2009-08-01 09:22:53 AM marcf   the programming is complicated 2009-08-01 09:22:58 AM marcf   the integration is complicated 2009-08-01 09:23:08 AM kdavis   everything is complicated with crestron 2009-08-01 09:23:19 AM marcf   thats a business model 2009-08-01 09:23:35 AM kdavis   lol 2009-08-01 09:23:54 AM marcf   I tell them that to put crestron in I would need the codes to the box so as to build an iPhone layer 2009-08-01 09:24:11 AM marcf   I get blank stares with "you are not our average customer" 2009-08-01 09:24:39 AM marcf   the installers take me apart and say "we got to talk bout that, but outside the building" 2009-08-01 09:24:49 AM marcf   these are commercial installers 2009-08-01 09:24:58 AM marcf   crestron is the only game they know 2009-08-01 09:25:16 AM marcf   it cost them a lot to stay abreast, they complain about the complexity but it just cost them too much to switch 2009-08-01 09:25:52 AM marcf   it was educating 2009-08-01 09:26:10 AM kdavis   yea 2009-08-01 09:26:24 AM kdavis   there average customer is rich and doesn't know anything about technology 2009-08-01 09:26:35 AM kdavis   and thus they lean on the installer for every little change 2009-08-01 09:26:59 AM kdavis   and that's how they make their recurring money 2009-08-01 09:26:59 AM marcf   big sticky point for me: they do not share their source code (the installers) 2009-08-01 09:27:09 AM kdavis   right 2009-08-01 09:27:11 AM marcf   they hold you hostage with that as well 2009-08-01 09:27:16 AM kdavis   you have to be a certified developer to get code 2009-08-01 09:27:18 AM marcf   big turn off 2009-08-01 09:27:44 AM marcf   the sign of abuse of ignorant customers 2009-08-01 09:27:51 AM marcf   not healthy 2009-08-01 09:27:55 AM kdavis   well 2009-08-01 09:27:58 AM kdavis   honestly 2009-08-01 09:28:09 AM kdavis   there market is flourishing 2009-08-01 09:28:14 AM kdavis   due to ignorant customers 2009-08-01 09:28:23 AM kdavis   do I agree with it, no 2009-08-01 09:28:29 AM kdavis   by my clients are all into Crestron 2009-08-01 09:28:38 AM marcf   you are an installer? 2009-08-01 09:28:38 AM kdavis   all over there offices, etc. 2009-08-01 09:28:40 AM kdavis   no 2009-08-01 09:28:45 AM kdavis   I'm a strategy consultant 2009-08-01 09:28:52 AM kdavis   M&A 2009-08-01 09:29:00 AM marcf   insteresting 2009-08-01 09:29:01 AM kdavis   my day job has nothing to do with this stuff 2009-08-01 09:29:05 AM kdavis   2009-08-01 09:29:10 AM kdavis   this is a hobby for me 2009-08-01 09:29:39 AM kdavis   but, I've been around the industry for a long time and I know a lot of the players 2009-08-01 09:29:53 AM kdavis   because I do my research, visit conferences, talk to developers, etc. 2009-08-01 09:30:01 AM marcf   A bit rallying point for everyone though is "luxury for the masses" 2009-08-01 09:30:16 AM kdavis   right 2009-08-01 09:30:19 AM marcf   the guys I talk to are all receptive to the idea, the big question is always "how" 2009-08-01 09:30:22 AM kdavis   the masses wouldn't be the crestron market 2009-08-01 09:30:48 AM marcf   so you do M&A in the field or other fields? 2009-08-01 09:31:07 AM kdavis   M&A for most industries 2009-08-01 09:31:15 AM kdavis   financial services, telecom, manufacturing 2009-08-01 09:31:18 AM kdavis   I work for a big 4 2009-08-01 09:31:26 AM marcf   I see 2009-08-01 09:31:44 AM kdavis   Insurance, etc. 2009-08-01 09:32:28 AM marcf   did you see the Crestron offer at $700, they do it against C4 2009-08-01 09:32:30 AM kdavis   my current client is a large insurance company 2009-08-01 09:32:40 AM kdavis   they just acquired a competitor (which was larger than them) 2009-08-01 09:32:45 AM marcf   ouch 2009-08-01 09:32:49 AM marcf   python sympton? 2009-08-01 09:32:55 AM kdavis   lol 2009-08-01 09:33:14 AM marcf   __^^^__& 2009-08-01 09:33:30 AM marcf   I got to run, take the kids to swimming pool 2009-08-01 09:33:54 AM marcf   are you making progress on getting to ATL for cedia? 2009-08-01 09:34:06 AM marcf   I am thinking of doing an OR get together 2009-08-01 09:34:15 AM kdavis   I don't know yet 2009-08-01 09:34:19 AM kdavis   the funds aren't there yet 2009-08-01 09:34:21 AM marcf   or will your real job interfere 2009-08-01 09:34:29 AM kdavis   my girlfriend is in school, so I'm paying for her bills and mine 2009-08-01 09:34:34 AM marcf   oh, wow 2009-08-01 09:34:34 AM kdavis   including her apartment in Connecticut 2009-08-01 09:35:05 AM kdavis   yea, so we'll see 2009-08-01 09:35:09 AM kdavis   I'd love to go 2009-08-01 09:35:12 AM kdavis   and hang with you guys 2009-08-01 09:35:23 AM marcf   I need to check out the price of cedia 2009-08-01 09:36:28 AM kdavis   I forget the price 2009-08-01 09:37:23 AM kdavis   ttyl 2009-08-01 10:25:32 AM ncherry   Hey guys, I just ordered a new Insteon USB PLM so now I have a controller to work with (and not interfere with my existing HA. I should be working with the code by next week (Final Wednesday, yeah!) 2009-08-01 12:43:03 PM guest3276   Just found this: 2009-08-01 12:43:07 PM guest3276   http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Automation/General/W4N8S7V9 2009-08-01 12:43:22 PM guest3276   Should Automation Systems Be Compulsory? 2009-08-01 12:43:45 PM guest3276   Makes me want to rant (linuxha) 2009-08-01 04:26:54 PM *juha*   website appears to be back to normal.